[Maverick]

xx iTz Todd, on 16 May 2011 - 09:01 PM, said:

Why would my idea never work though? If the player is good enough as he claims to be, then he should be able to comfortably win with 4.5 and 5 stars?

This is why your idea won't work; 2 players get matched up, One refuses to play with anything but international/5 star teams and the other refuses to play with anything other than 4.5 star teams. What do you do? Force one to play a different way? You can't, there needs to be set rules so that it's fair for everyone and the same for everyone.

[JBizz]

or just both choose from any team in the game apart from the obvious like classic xi, world xi & international teams.

[Cripsy]

JBizz, on 16 May 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

or just both choose from any team in the game apart from the obvious like classic xi, world xi & international teams.

Yes.

[Maverick]

JBizz, on 16 May 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

or just both choose from any team in the game apart from the obvious like classic xi, world xi & international teams.

So what you mean is, choose from the 5 star teams...

xx iTz Todd, on 16 May 2011 - 09:14 PM, said:

That's why I said you could enforce that there's one game with 4.5 and one game with 5.

What about game 3?

[JBizz]

whats the problem with that though... as i stated.. ecl and fiwc both use this and it works perfectly

[Maverick]

xx iTz Todd, on 16 May 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

Loser's choice?

What if the goal difference is the same?

There is no way it will work. I wish it could, but it wont.

JBizz, on 16 May 2011 - 09:26 PM, said:

whats the problem with that though... as i stated.. ecl and fiwc both use this and it works perfectly

At some point, somebody at MLG was like "You know what, everybody plays halo with the radar on but I think it would be much better as a competitive game if we turned it off"
Just because "everyone else" does it doesn't mean it's the best way for the game to be played competatively. I think what ACL has done is really brave and the game is better as less luck based without 5 star teams.

[fray Muzza]

Maverick, how can you say that using 4.5 star teams uses more skill? It simply takes some elements out of the game which hardly makes it more skillful. It takes a good player to beat a 5 star team with a 4.5 star team yes, but when it's 4.5 vs 4.5 there's less skill involved than 5 vs 5 which is the part some people seem to struggle to understand. You wouldn't say that 0.5 star vs 0.5 star team games are more skillful (at least I hope not ) and yet that is just a more extreme example.

It's not just the Drogba's, Messi's and Ronaldo's that make 5 star teams good. It's players like Xavi Alonso who can pass the ball really nicely over a long distance, iniesta who has close control in midfield, Essein who is an athlete and will just keep running for you all game. When these players are utilised properly they are just as dangerous as anyone else. There is still a trade-off when you choose among 5 star teams, ie Barcelona have good technical players, Madrid are lightning on a counter attack, Chelsea are strong powerful players. But these trade offs tailor the game to people's playing styles. You constantly see bad players trying to use barcelona or madrid because they believe these to be the best teams, but when it doesn't suit their style it still doesn't work for them. Bad players may be brought up a little bit by allowing 5 star teams, but good players are the ones who stand to gain the most from it.

[Default]

xx iTz Todd, on 16 May 2011 - 09:08 PM, said:

Lets all use A-league teams.

nil all draws kgo haha

[Maverick]

Muzza255, on 16 May 2011 - 09:37 PM, said:

Maverick, how can you say that using 4.5 star teams uses more skill? It simply takes some elements out of the game which hardly makes it more skillful. It takes a good player to beat a 5 star team with a 4.5 star team yes, but when it's 4.5 vs 4.5 there's less skill involved than 5 vs 5 which is the part some people seem to struggle to understand. You wouldn't say that 0.5 star vs 0.5 star team games are more skillful (at least I hope not ) and yet that is just a more extreme example.

It's not just the Drogba's, Messi's and Ronaldo's that make 5 star teams good. It's players like Xavi Alonso who can pass the ball really nicely over a long distance, iniesta who has close control in midfield, Essein who is an athlete and will just keep running for you all game. When these players are utilised properly they are just as dangerous as anyone else. There is still a trade-off when you choose among 5 star teams, ie Barcelona have good technical players, Madrid are lightning on a counter attack, Chelsea are strong powerful players. But these trade offs tailor the game to people's playing styles. You constantly see bad players trying to use barcelona or madrid because they believe these to be the best teams, but when it doesn't suit their style it still doesn't work for them. Bad players may be brought up a little bit by allowing 5 star teams, but good players are the ones who stand to gain the most from it.

I'm glad we can actually talk about this properly and discuss our points of view, the FIFA community is defiantly a lot more mature than some of the other games currently running.

In answer to your question, I 100% believe that if I was playing somebody skilled at FIFA but that I can beat 9/10 times the chances of them scoring against me with a 5 star team is much much higher than with a 4.5 star team and the reason for this is because if your players are better it requires less skill to do the same things you would do with a 4.5 star team.

[fray Muzza]

Maverick, on 16 May 2011 - 09:46 PM, said:

I'm glad we can actually talk about this properly and discuss our points of view, the FIFA community is defiantly a lot more mature than some of the other games currently running.

In answer to your question, I 100% believe that if I was playing somebody skilled at FIFA but that I can beat 9/10 times the chances of them scoring against me with a 5 star team is much much higher than with a 4.5 star team and the reason for this is because if your players are better it requires less skill to do the same things you would do with a 4.5 star team.

I find the exact opposite. I like to play a very attacking formation which leaves me light on at the back, but I'm confident in my ability to defend with only a few players. When you throw 4.5 star teams into the mix it becomes a totally different ball game though. They jump into tackles you don't want them to automatically, freeze up for a second when the opposition plays a pass because of their low reaction stat, fresh air clearances etc etc. This leads to goals being scored against me which simply wouldn't happen with a 5 star team. It also leads to me using a more defensive formation to try and counteract this which I think was done by quite a few people in the first online round because no one was really all that attacking.

As for the " if your players are better it requires less skill to do the same things" part, I totally disagree. There are just things that certain players can't do. For instance if you pass it to someone in the barcelona team your first touch can pretty much go in any direction you want it to which is ideal for protecting the ball, players from some other teams however will not be as good and so will sometimes take their touch in a totally different direction to the one you wanted. It's not that things can be done more easily with 5 star teams, it's that 5 star teams open up more options.

[Peteh]

I'm back, time for an essay:

Spoiler

Terrible jokes aside,

Variety:

There are only five 5 star teams in the game atm:
Inter Milan
Manchester United
Chelsea
Barcelona
Real Madrid

This is a down point for 5 star teams, however,

4.5 star teams used at Melbourne:
Arsenal
Tottenham
Manchester City
Dortmund
Aston Villa (Only used in pool play)
Liverpool (Only used in pool play)

Because Troy is a hero and stuck to Dortmund, I commend him. However, Arsenal, Tottenham, Manchester City and AC Milan are definitely the power clubs in 4.5 star competitions.

With the next transfers update, probably around July after the June transfer window, you can bet your balls that AC Milan will be 5 stars and even Man City will get a boost. That will be in time for Sydney or at least R3, this means that Arsenal and Tottenham will boss the 4.5 star teams.


OP Players:

Messi, Ronaldo, Drogba etc. Yes there are better attacking players. Of course it's easy to remember these players because they are the ones that "SCORE AL TEH GOLZ". But they aren't the ones that win you games. The defenses that can not be equaled by ANY 4.5 star team no matter what 5 star team you use are more than enough to deal with these players.

For eg. If Ronaldo is running down the wing and gets past Abidal, if you're any good, Pique will be there to cover. Same goes for Zanetti and Lucio, Evra and Vidic, Cole and Terry. If Ronaldo gets past BOTH players, you've f***ed up. Unless of course there is a "That's FIFA" moment, a term that is relevant no matter what team you play as or against. The only way Ronaldo will single out one of the 5 star teams' outrageously fast and strong left backs is on the counter, and any half decent player or even fan of the sport will tell you that Madrid froth on the counter ,', be careful of the counter.

Offense is Pro-Active, Defence is reactive. People talk about how they attack all the time, nobody talks about how they defend. I've been watching VoD on my computer from Melbourne and most players will do the same thing; attack the player with the ball and cover with another defender. This strat is good, but players don't seem to think about how to get in that situation. Players don't know how to defend in the middle of the park, which is one of the reasons why Cripsy using Tottenham, the strongest team pushing through the middle, grilled everyone in the LB.

I don't play FIFA enough to do it consistently, but forcing the ball wide by not allowing the passes through the middle is the easiest way to defend in FIFA, just like it is RL. Players will rush in try to win the ball in the middle of the field and get punished, like you should. Same applies to out wide, if you are constantly getting pumped by a gun wide player, don't challenge with your wide defender until you are covered.

Defending properly is easier using 5 star teams for reason Muzza stated, they don't dive in, they have faster reaction times, their positioning is better.

Now to talk about OP players in 4.5 star teams.

If Tottenham play a 4-2-3-1 with Bale, Lennon, Modric and van der Vart as striker is OUTRAGEOUS, easily a 5 star attack if backed by higher rated defensive midfielders and defenders. The same can be said about Fabregas, Walcott, Arshavin and van Persie, Milan with Pato, Robinho, Pirlo and Ibrahimovic, Man City with Silva, Toure, Johnson and Tevez.

These are crazy attacking lineups, but why are they 4.5 star teams? Because the defenses are terrible when compared to 5 star teams. So basically, you have 5 star attack vs 4.5 star defense.


Gameplay:

FIFA was made to be played at 5 stars, the full extent of the game can be used. You have OPTIONS and CREATIVITY in attack as well as VERSATILITY and DEPTH in defense. The players will do what you tell them, you can use your sick strats and your players will not stuff up. That is with the exception of "That's FIFA" moments, something that 4.5 star teams are just as, if not exceedingly more famous for.


2c and shi- yo!

[JBizz]

love u petehphile

[ninja brett]

hopefully in FIFA 12 the teams will even out a little bit and there will be a lot more 5 star teams and will make this discussion useless , we can only hope

[Cripsy]

My turn..,

Lots of people have known me to say ACL will never see 5 stars, and we all know my reasons, right up until a week ago.

Personally, and Pete has pointed out. Teams all over the park improve with Drogba countered by Pepe, Cole counters Messi, Etc etc. All teams have a way of countering others in some way or another.

We may also see more and more players coming across to play with us as we expand

[Maverick]

This has nothing to do with there being a problem with 4.5 star teams lacking in certain areas, and is 100% about changing in the hope that it will attract more players and perhaps even sponsors. There is nothing wrong with this at all, but lets not bullshit about there being more teams and the game playing differently with 5 star over 4.5 because at the end of the day the only reason this is even being considered has nothing at all to do with the game and everything to do with ACL wanting to increase its appeal.

[ninja brett]

noU

[fray Muzza]

Maverick, on 17 May 2011 - 01:44 AM, said:

This has nothing to do with there being a problem with 4.5 star teams lacking in certain areas, and is 100% about changing in the hope that it will attract more players and perhaps even sponsors. There is nothing wrong with this at all, but lets not bullshit about there being more teams and the game playing differently with 5 star over 4.5 because at the end of the day the only reason this is even being considered has nothing at all to do with the game and everything to do with ACL wanting to increase its appeal.

That's not the impression I got from reading this thread. Peteh's post doesn't mention making ACL more appealing at all and Cripsy's does only at the end as a kind of added bonus. The 5 star team debate has been around since before online round 1 so it's not like it's just come up now as a way to attract newcomers.